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The Haidut Thread That Won't Be Shut Down By Admin
#1
RPF.com is not a place where you can openly criticize Haidut, so I am creating the place here. All comments and concerns are welcome here, and I don't believe you will be banned or intimidated by admin regardless of whether your post is positive or negative.

Haidut's use of DMSO in his supplements is obviously a concern. I have reason to believe that it actually inhibits steroidogenesis and is probably quite difficult for the body to excrete. Sea has some good posts on DMSO. I believe DMSO is more of a business decision, because it allows these substances to be liquidized and applied in convenient drop dosing increments.

There are several good points to his supplements as well. The Panquinone product is extremely interesting as one of only a handful of quinones we have supplemental access to. This one is semi-ruined with addition of DMSO.

The wheat germ oil vitamin E product is also quite interesting. The production of a wheat germ derived vit E was probably difficult and I applaud him for making this happen. Unfortunately this product is semi-ruined by the addition of MCT oil. I don't believe MCT is needed for its antimicrobial properties with E. Its only use, to my knowledge, is making the oil more soluble and less viscous, ie, easier for people to drop on their skin/mouth. So its use would be advantageous from a business standpoint, but not from the standpoint of actually caring about the health of users.

This thread can also be in response to posts he makes on RPF.com because he obviously does a lot of homework before posting something, which is valuable. Unfortunately, you cannot be open with your true criticisms on that forum though, but here, it appears, anything can be said.

Haidut deserves to be criticized the same as myself and any other intelligent person. After three years of intensive Peatian Eatin, I believe that Haidut knows extremely little about what makes a human being function well on a day-to-day basis, but that is just my subjective opinion.
#2
I have seen haidut routinly claim that DMSO is safer than aspirin, yet I have never seen him support this claim. I am wondering if anyone who is not banned can press haidut for his evidence of this claim, since we know that Ray Peat has said aspirin is one of the safest supplements. I will try to find his quote, but he has also claimed that you are more likely to be hit by lightning than to react negativly to DMSO. I am wondering what his rational is for that claim as well.
"The true method of knowledge is experiment." -William Blake
#3
Following, is the poster farmerMark's critique of Haidut. farmerMark was last seen at the other forum on March 3, 2016, a mere 2 weeks after he started the thread, "Questionable Safety Of Dmso". Since, farmerMark had promised to post more information about DMSO, but never posted in the thread again after writing the following post, I think it is very likely he was banned/censored by the authoritarian admins over there.

"I can't really figure how to get the email exchange up. You can do it as you are a lot slicker at that stuff.
I'd like to bring up an uncomfortable question to the forum, since Georgi has so politely reminded me. Do you really want a person who is selling you things as the main contributor of data? I find the notion anti-Peat. This is a forum of people looking for answers. I don't believe that a person selling things ,and in my opinion subtly veering them in his direction, should be allowed to post.
Initially, I was very impressed with his mastery of facts as I listened on the Generative Energy podcast. He was certainly agreeing with Dr. Peat and seemed perhaps in my subconscious as a young Peat. Certainly with more skills and mastery than I. So I was very interested in him, and I think projecting my respect for Dr. Peat onto him. So things were going along well with my learning until the day I read that he was selling some supplement. Most of me thought that well he knows Dr. Peat better than I do, and he's smarter than I am, and so great. About 10% of me said hmmm. Then he brings out another and another and I remember him stating that he's doing this at cost. And one of his admirers said please Georgi, charge a little for your trouble. At that point I said are you kidding me! No way he's doing this out of the goodness of his heart, unless he is Saint Georgi. (If you are I sincerely apologize.) I noticed the Estroban add in this forum and it wanted everyone to take a poll on how much they were willing to pay for a 30 day supply, 10,20,30,40,or 50 dollars. This is determining the price according to what the market will bear, 101. But in the same post he states "I would sell it at cost, just like Ray is selling his Progest-E". If that were so, why have the poll on what price you are willing to pay. If it were so you would have asked would anyone pay $18.32 (assuming that is the cost). And note how he wrapped himself in Dr. Peat's flag saying "just like Ray is selling his Progest-E". And I remember hearing Dr. Peat say he has had no financial connection to Progest-E for I think 20 years.
So upon reading these things I was suspicious, but still the supplements looked better than most, as I was trying to get away from the excipients. So I ordered the retinil, estroban, and the tyromax. But as I stated already in my post I reacted to it. Georgi said no problem, dilute it. I didn't use it any more and started the investigation. As I found potential problems I expressed them to Georgi in another email but he did not respond to them. I responded to every point he made and he cherry-picked his responses, and I said at the time, just like a pharmaceutical company. If he couldn't convince me with his weak FDA evidence he just wanted me to go away. I eventually did.
And so I was convinced that DMSO had problems. But then I notice there are other supplements he's selling with DMSO, and the rest of the forum less wise about the possible ill-effects. So I decided to post the evidence. By the way there is more to come.
In conclusion, I don't believe a member of the forum should be selling things directly on the forum. Let's call it the separation of science and capitalism. Of all things Dr. Peat would agree with that. And Georgi by all means put our emails up, I just read them again and they sounded pretty good. (Of course I believe Georgi is trying to intimidate me.)" -farmerMark
"The true method of knowledge is experiment." -William Blake
#4
I will begin to post quotes written by Haidut, which I believe can allow others to gain a more accurate understanding of his character. Normally, I don't think it is constructive to point out the flaws of others, but to lead by example. However, Haidut has chosen to market and sell supplements to the Ray Peat community, supplements which aren't certified by a third party, making the character and trustworthiness of Haidut paramount for the safety of those interested in purchasing his products or taking health advice from him. Haidut is of course welcome to make an account in this forum and defend himself, his supplements, and the health advice he dispenses when side effects are reported to him from using the supplements he sells.

The first major red flag I noticed about Haidut's character was from his following interaction with farmerMark, who had purchased several products from him:

"So, please post our full exchange at your earliest convenience so that forum users can see what BOTH of us REALLY said and discussed. If you don't, I will create a PDF of our full email exchange and post it here. I am trying to avoid this situation as it would reveal your full email address and name.
Thank you for contributing and now please do full disclosure as it is customary to do in such cases.

--Georgi"

It would have been very simple for Haidut to redact farmerMark's personal information, yet he threatened and then made the choice to make the personal information of one of his customers public.
"The true method of knowledge is experiment." -William Blake
#5
The point of haidut's post above was to threaten farmerMark.

In other words, after simply mentioning the potential problems of DSMO, haidut threatens to publicly post private information of his customer.

The excuse haidut gave is laughable, as he could simply copy and paste, and avoid copying the name of the customer. He knows how to copy and paste, because he has done so when posting information.
#6
When I joined rpf.com back in april 2014, the forum (for several more months) included reputation points, similar to the ones Sea just got rid of on this forum. Members would basically click a "like" button on your post and it tallied up your "likes" or "reputation points." So you had two scores, the points for the post and then your overall points.

Haidut used this system perfectly the way he devised his pubmed-heavy writing style and unambiguous language to rack up a huge number of points. I'm not saying he used this system nefariously from the beginning, but if you look at his early posts, you can tell he adopted a style where he learned that no one would question his viewpoint if there was an excessive number of pubmed studies behind it.

Anyways, the system of "yes-men" agreeing with most of what he says started back then, and once the mob all agrees with you, then it is very easy to silence any dissenting opinions. He hasn't had to do much personally in this regard, dissenters are shouted down by his followers and it is the rare dissenter that doesn't succumb to that much social pressure, ie FarmerMark.
#7
(11-16-2016, 10:44 AM)Sea Wrote: I will begin to post quotes written by Haidut, which I believe can allow others to gain a more accurate understanding of his character. Normally, I don't think it is constructive to point out the flaws of others, but to lead by example. However, Haidut has chosen to market and sell supplements to the Ray Peat community, supplements which aren't certified by a third party making the character and trustworthiness of Haidut paramount for the safety of those interested in purchasing products from him. Haidut is of course welcome to make an account and defend himself and his supplements in this forum if he wants to engage in open debate where people who criticize him or his supplements are not censored.

The first major red flag I noticed about Haidut's character was from his following interaction with farmerMark, who had purchased several products from him:

"So, please post our full exchange at your earliest convenience so that forum users can see what BOTH of us REALLY said and discussed. If you don't, I will create a PDF of our full email exchange and post it here. I am trying to avoid this situation as it would reveal your full email address and name.
Thank you for contributing and now please do full disclosure as it is customary to do in such cases.

--Georgi"

It would have been very simple for Haidut to redact farmerMark's personal information, yet he threatened and then made the choice to make the personal information of one of his customers public.

I am glad that I'm not the only one questioning the potential problem with conflicts of interest and safety.  I'm kind of old school, so I never got around to ordering supplements from a stranger on the internet who is not bona fide.  But if I would have stuck around longer I might have ordered something.  I mean a lot of us are so desperate to see health improvements and the testimonials seemed convincing.  It's hard not to be enticed by a potential fountain of youth.
#8
The Dmso is shit,majority of people think so,right form the start people's libido tanked.

Peats quote on DMSO is clear not to use it,burtanclast is a fanatic for DMSO along with haidut,they are in denial.
The 8 mcg per drop T3 supplement is his biggest fuck up so far,stupid move.

In relation to refuting Haidut,I have to say I never seen any of you put together a reasonably well backed argument,it was only anecdotal you provided,it's relevant but not good enough to refute him.
Other members tried to do this to him with study backed research like the forum members he posted in a claim they don't agree with him and didn't get banned ,there arguments are typical knowledge addicts and full of flaws,they are trying to sound knowledgable by posting one sided studies and shy away when he starts to argue with them.
Nobody strings together the story as well as Haidut does,he can do this because it's his industry,he understands and has mentioned several times you have to take a gamble at some point.
I think gbolduev was mania fuelled postings,he had other accounts in health forums basically abusing people who didn't agree with home,his arguments were shit,eat sea plankton,don't lower estrogen because it helps copper,things Peat has covered so it's easy for haidut to argue back ,flying over the surface knowledge,no depth to it.
One forum member started eating the expensive plankton recommended by gbolduev after he was posting 2 days,it shows how desperate peole are,hilarious!

Keep in mind Haidut is not banning you,it's Charlie, I guarantee you Haidut would take anyone on in a thread on DMSO,ultimately you will end up with limited studies on either side,at this point it's a Gamble until further research developes,what you do have is the capacity to ask Peat specific questions on DMSO and post them on the forum.
They are ignoring what Peat is saying here,ask Peat will he use keto-dht in dmso or dhea in dmso,progesterone in dmso is probably the best question as he knows so much on making progesterone in dmso. These question corner haidut more,notice how nobody on the forum wants to ask these questions,they want this hysterical dream to be true.
@Goodvevil posted a question to Peat on androsterone on joint pain being caused by low estrogen,Peat said no way,I think he was posting it in the email deposit on rpf.com ,not sure if it's been allowed yet!!

Haidut should go back to vitamin E like peat used for progesterone,if we use more he makes more money,using less with dmso makes them last longer so I'm not sure who does his accountancy but this can't be much.

Like was said ,some of his supplements could be considered beta versions and for beta they are really good.
You have to respect it's a business with costs,he can either dump the DMSO and up the cost and lose business or he can keep costs down and give the lower incomes an opportunity to purchase them. If he starts making pills with powder it will cost more.
I think he will get rid of the DMSO soon either way,he just needs an new carrier,he asked for this multiple times which shows he wants to change it.
#9
Following is an exchange between Haidut and a customer of his, who reported an allergic reaction to Tyromix:

Quote:
Marytwo said:
Quote:i recently started on TyroMix per my ND's suggestion. I have been on TyroMax since January of this year. I added one drop of TyroMix to my morning dosage.... I place the drops on my inner wrist and rub together.... as I am rubbing it together it starts to have a burning sensation that becomes pretty painful...then as that calms down, my arms get a bunch of bumps on them and then it turns red. It takes it some time before everything goes away? i was wonder why this is happening and if I should stop the TyroMix?

Thank you,
Mary

This is most likely an allergic reaction to the DMSO. I would try using a different skin area (shoulders, legs, feet, etc) or dilute the drops with a bit of water or alcohol. The latter should eliminate the irritation but I would also try different skin area just to see if it is a local sensitivity.
 

Haidut is aware that allergic reactions to DMSO can result in anaphylaxis which has the potential to be fatal. Yet, Haidut encourages this customer to continue using his product at significant risk to herself.
"The true method of knowledge is experiment." -William Blake
#10
(11-19-2016, 10:14 PM)Sea Wrote: Following is an exchange between Haidut and a customer of his, who reported an allergic reaction to Tyromix:

Quote:
Marytwo said:
Quote:i recently started on TyroMix per my ND's suggestion. I have been on TyroMax since January of this year. I added one drop of TyroMix to my morning dosage.... I place the drops on my inner wrist and rub together.... as I am rubbing it together it starts to have a burning sensation that becomes pretty painful...then as that calms down, my arms get a bunch of bumps on them and then it turns red. It takes it some time before everything goes away? i was wonder why this is happening and if I should stop the TyroMix?

Thank you,
Mary

This is most likely an allergic reaction to the DMSO. I would try using a different skin area (shoulders, legs, feet, etc) or dilute the drops with a bit of water or alcohol. The latter should eliminate the irritation but I would also try different skin area just to see if it is a local sensitivity.
 

Haidut is aware that allergic reactions to DMSO can result in anaphylaxis which has the potential to be fatal. Yet, Haidut encourages this customer to continue using his product at significant risk to herself.
He should refund the money. He claims he will when asked. 

Diluting with water or alcohol reduces or precludes transdermal penetration.
  
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